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Phil Byrne 0:00
Welcome to Digital sparks the podcast where you can improve your web marketing, enhance your online productivity, and spark your entrepreneurial spirit. All from the tips, tales and techniques, our guests come here to share.
My name is Phil Byrne, and today I’m joined by Mark Layder, founder of Qollaborate, the biz connector is looking to change the way businesses operate, and help them succeed through that all important first year. Hey Mark, welcome to the podcast.
Mark Layder 0:37
And welcome back to you. Thank you very much for having me on Phil thanks, great to speak to you
Phil Byrne 0:42
And you too. Great to have you here. Learn some tips from someone who’s been a business advisor for a long time. But for those of us who don’t know who you are, and what you do Mark, tell us all about yourself.
Mark Layder 0:53
Well, in simple terms, we’re kind of creating a new profession, in professional terms, if you like is called Business Connectors and if you shorten that, you get that Biz Connectors. And it’s basically does what it says on the tin. Our job as Biz Connectors is to quite literally connect business owners, businesses if you like, with the right resources, the right tools, with the right people at the right time, and ideally for the right price or the right sort of investment. Because there’s so many tools out there now that people certainly busy business owners haven’t got the time to find out what’s out there. So having somebody to be that Biz Connector, in old terms like the bookies runner, somebody that can bring things to you to a plan on demand, if you like or an on demand Business Development Service, we start to get called, then that’s what we’re doing. We want to be there so that busy business owners can get on doing what they are good at, and that they’ve got people then can get them what they need, in line with their own goals and aspirations. Pretty much 24/7
Phil Byrne 2:03
Sounds great Mark, you know that that sounds a service which most businesses need. And just as you were saying all that I was thinking to myself, if you were a new business, how do you know, at the beginning of your journey that you need help?
Mark Layder 2:20
I think that’s become an easy one. In an odd way Phil, because in everything we’ve found over many years, that there’s almost if a penny dropped called you one, maybe the person with the big idea will not do what they’re trying to do certainly optimally on their own. That’s one of the key mindset shifts, that that means then to almost look at yourself as the person because, in the sense that the person who’s great at cutting hair or working on cars, or being a coach often doesn’t like what we call the business of business, which is the selling stuff, and then the operational stuff and financial stuff. So it’s almost that moment of just knowing straight away, how do I build a great team to make what I want to make happen and start designing on that. That would be the first thing if you instantly get clear. I’m not going to do this on my own. I don’t want to be working 90 hours a week taking minimum wage out the business doing things I’m not very good at how do I build the right team around me to do this optimally, so that we thrive and not just survive?
Phil Byrne 3:38
That’s a great phrase thrive and not survive. And you saw right there Mark, one of the things that I think most of us come to realize when we set up a business is maybe in the beginning, we think you were very good at something that is the secret to having a successful business. But it’s much more than that. That skill is important whatever it is, we have to learn what a business is and how to run one. And that’s certainly been a great journey for me, the online world and the tech the behind it. Because I’m for whatever reason, whatever crazy mind I have, I’m naturally inclined to absorb those things very easily. But learning about how a business is and how it runs, was a great journey of mine.
Mark Layder 4:26
But that seems to be the essence of it. And you know, even my best buddy from college whose post graduate marketing superstar blah, blah, blah, but he could never run his own business. He failed every time because he was trained to do it for big companies spending other people’s money, not investing his own in his business in his time. And that’s a completely different skill set that most of us through the traditional education system do not have but we can develop it if we get that team mindset and then look to build a team to do what we’re trying to do, and then start to put everybody in the right workstyle role in that business. It’s a completely different process than just about any business classic business training we see in the world today.
Phil Byrne 5:15
You mentioned the great word there, putting the right lifestyle role into the right position. Yes, tell us a bit about that.
Mark Layder 5:26
We started, it came through people when I did business systemization work in the past, of really getting the blueprint of how your business does what it does and recording them, so you can train and everything else and we did a lot of work around that subject. And one of the key principles that sort of came out from that was, people almost didn’t know what they wanted ideally from their business. So we would ask them, well in the ideal world, do you want to be sitting on the beach in Bermuda just getting a check every month? Or would you like to build up the business to sell it for the highest value? Or would you like to continue working in the business, but only doing the things that you like doing in the business with everything else properly taken care of, and just engaging business owners in that conversation caused them to start to look at the design of their business. And it’s that piece that if there’s a phrase or a term that we’d love to see, the end of going forward is the is the phrase business startup, because it almost implies failure, because you don’t start a race, without the mindset of finishing it or getting the personal best or winning it a business startup? Well, I’m going to start up a business, but I don’t know what it’s like when it’s finished. So it becomes an incompletion kind of feel. So we want to shift all of this work towards you’re in business design phase. And the design of getting it as to how it’s meant to work mapped out pretty much before you open the doors, again, is right up there in the first two or three things we’d be looking to encourage people to do to get that thrival base built as a foundation, not just the survival base.
Phil Byrne 7:12
That’s a great concept Mark. And so what you’re saying is that you would sit down with a company, which you would call a business design stage, at that level in the beginning, and look to really map out what they want the business to bring to their life, as much as what they’re going to do in the business and who their potential clients might be. So that kind of philosophy of really desire or really fit in, in that business, which supports that lifestyle. Now, that image you had of sitting on the beach in Bermuda waiting for a sale to come in. Sounds good to me Mark, probably not for everyone else
Mark Layder 7:50
Takes all kinds, doesn’t it? That’s the whole beauty of it. And then the guy or the famous story of the hairdresser, everybody says you shouldn’t be working for somebody else, you should be working on your own, they then go and six months later, they’re doing that, but somebody’s got to be paying the bill, somebody’s got to be doing the marketing. And that’s the bit the entrepreneurial rushes it where that often that person is not really an entrepreneur, they’re an enterprise. But if they learn these lessons about how do I create this right core team around me, then they can be that great hairdresser and spending their time doing that. And of course, making more of the money if that’s the goal, but until people are even aware of that, they are not likely to do it. And that creates the huge failure syndrome that all the Western world or the first world countries as they get called, have pretty much got despite all these advisors telling them what to do.
Phil Byrne 8:48
Interesting stuff. So Mark this this kind of layout that you have now must have taken some development and a lot of experience on your side, which you mentioned briefly before to come to, so tell us a bit about your very first clients in your new Biz Connection venture, who were they? You don’t have to give names, but tell us a bit about what they do. And how did they react to this new approach?
Mark Layder 9:14
The single biggest comment and you know, you could have asked me this question on the you know, you showed me some of the questions beforehand, and obviously my first consultancy client, and you’ve moved into the Biz Connectors as well and they’re different, but it’s kind of a good point. Because they’re ultimately the same, that it’s the diagnostic piece. It’s the bit of finding out what the person wants and who they are and what they want it to be that the word questionnaire always comes to mind in this because the bit that people say today through the Biz Connect process, on a little three-minute questionnaire where they and it does what it says on the tin again, you know, it takes three minutes and you tick out is of interest. And we’ll go through them with you as a way of opening the dialogue from the clients’ point of view, not from, oh you need this, or we’ll just show you that we try and bespoke the service to what the client needs. So it’s that questionnaire type approach and that feeling, because what clients do say to us is when we show them resources that can make or save the money, often for nothing, or for very little investment on their part. They say to us; why didn’t I know about this? And the best answer we can come up with is, because you’re too busy, you’re too busy working on cars, you’re too busy cutting hair, you are too busy in the business. So if you’ve got that resource, or that material, or whatever it is, that brings these things to your attention. That’s what people say and that by going out with a diagnostic, so we’re very relaxed in our client processes, we only want to open our relationship with that person. on their terms, if you like, of course, we’ve got commercials and business stuff and things that we can get them involved with. But until you know that whole thing about even in sales language, closing business, ooh don’t like closings but I’ve always, all the work we’ve ever done says closing isn’t the problem, you can’t close the door, the door already closed. Opening, if you can be a great opener of doors, brackets, relationships, then you’ve got the chance to walk through. And that’s the key to the process, as we see it is be a great opener of relationships and then offer value and ask the other person, it’s an Ask your way to success process that just about not just about in this situation, either everybody, all parties to the process wins, or the process doesn’t happen.
Phil Byrne 11:48
I love what you’ve done with the language of sales there. So you know this word closure? Is it seems very difficult puts a lot of pressure on us. It seems like it’s a word used to almost judge whether we’re actually good at selling or not, whereas open is so much freer isn’t it? I can just see completely how that relaxes people, all I’m going to do is try and open this relationship up and see where it goes. So do you look at it that way? Mark? do you advise companies, don’t put these big pressures on things being brought in the door right now? These are the way you look at that relationship? Do you allow the relationship to take the deal forward? Or? do you come in with a structure?
Mark Layder 12:35
A buddy of mine in Birmingham actually has a really nice process that was aimed at I think it came out of business owners who didn’t see themselves as very sales orientated and you know, as a staff 80 plus percent of them don’t particularly. And I don’t think he called it this, but I turned it into the plus one process. And what it would mean he would get a list of people that they were talking to, and put them on a big whiteboard or flip chart or whatever. And instead of again, being about this closing or getting the money or whatever, he would just go through this list systematically and say, what’s the next step or the plus one with this person or this business and just go down that list. And then he’d say, how many of those plus ones can you do or should you do today, and suddenly from this, again, this Oh, God, I’ve got to get five grand off them or I’ve got to do this and this sort of massive things. It just focus them on the next step or which has become known as the plus one. And again, that becomes part of this demystification of in this case, the very emotive subject of lead generation and business development, which is stereotypically the bit that most business owners don’t really want to do, for lots of reasons. So it’s that step plus oneing process that we’re very interested in, because that’s freeing again, people go, Oh, well, I just need to get him an email with the quote John or just need to get back and ask answer his question about the guarantee. Can you do those? Yes. Can you do them today? Yes. Do you want to do them today? Yes. Suddenly, it’s a yes, yes, yes, atmosphere, rather than Oh, God, I don’t want to do that. I just want to cut hair or you know, I just want to do what I do. It’s making those processes into much more available and comfortable to most people that actually haven’t got to be super-duper sales people or biz connectors. That just got to be interested in the relationship and if they’ve got a good product or service, then doing the next thing and if the answer to that is yes. And there’s a positive attitude to it. That works for them and the existing or potential client.
Phil Byrne 14:43
Sounds good to me Mark. Everything seem it’s all free Mark, everything you say and I’m feeling better myself, and I’m not even in the sales call.
Mark Layder 14:52
Oh, good.
Phil Byrne 14:55
So Mark, we’re in a kind of strange time in history it seems There’s all kinds of going on in the world. And at the same time, the progress of technology and business and AI is a new phrase that many people are now aware of, is accelerating quicker than ever. So what tips would you give to a business starting out this year 2018,
Mark Layder 15:20
Pretty much the first thing that has become a real catch all is, on whatever day you intend to open the business. At the moment, it feels like I’m talking to them all, or we’re engaging with them talking to them, is put it put it back six months. And for me as the eternal optimist, who will always do things a bit previous and don’t jump, dive in a bit early sometimes, I would still go with this on this principle, because what it does for most people is to say, look, if you design this right as best you can, before you open the doors, you are much more likely to again, get into that thrival mode, and for it to be easy to run than if that old putting the boulders in the jar exercise and they ask, can you put more boulders in or can you get more in and people look at the big jar, and there’s big boulders in it and they go, No, but you can put pebbles in and you can put sand in and you can put water eventually in. And everybody thinks the message to that is you can get more done. And it sort of is but the real message is if you didn’t put the boulders in first, you get taken by the pebbles and the minutiae of everything. Or that’s what a business is, like if you don’t design it right, and have that big map and have that picture of what it is and what your role is it pretty much before you open the doors, because if you don’t do that in advance, the chances are you’ll spend your life tinkering with it and trying to get there forever. And we know from years of feedback, that often becomes the bit where business owners, they don’t go bust. They just closed the doors because it just is so tiring to keep trying to do that, which seems a sad loss, and something that can be easily rectified.
Phil Byrne 17:10
Really interesting point Mark, have you ever come across a business this is somehow developed into something that the owner doesn’t enjoy? Didn’t intend? Or, as you say, doesn’t even want? Is that a common thing for you?
Mark Layder 17:25
I would probably go as far as saying, if they’re beyond, if they do survive, you know, those first four or five years then, what are the Federation of Small Business stats, working 84 hours a week, and if you amortize the money they take out, they’re living on less than minimum wage. And the business dream, in our experience has often become the business nightmare. And that one of our again, phrases having the conversation many times is this what we’re kind of calling maybe driven by the web and the opportunities it creates as an entrepreneurial revolution. That that’s one of my sort of mismatch lines. I don’t think it is an entrepreneurial revolution, I would call it an enterprises revolution, perhaps because with coaches as an industry we both know, we asked quite a lot of them that if they could be doing what they were doing as a coach, but getting a, let’s call it a small salary, and maybe commissions on top or extras on top, then, and sort of maybe working for somebody else, but without a boss, what would they choose. And it’s something like 90% Choose the bit where they want to be doing more coaching, but they really don’t like finding clients and often they struggle with that. So this isn’t a classic definition of an entrepreneur taking underused resources and redeploying them for higher return. These are people now going through that change you alluded to before that says there’s no such thing as a job for life today. So we’ve got to learn new skills and we’ve got operating in new different ways. And as per our company title, Qollaborate, you know the word Qollaborator with a Q, because the first three letters then get you the QOL of quality of life. So it’s a merger of collaboration to get quality of life for everybody involved. If you put those components together, then suddenly you get an energized business owner because yes if I was talking to the right audience, so I’ve always been provocative. Most business owners are the business dream has become a quiet nightmare.
Phil Byrne 19:38
And at the time when there’s more and more people becoming self-employed, setting up their own small businesses. That’s doesn’t feel like a good thing for society does it? So many nightmares potentially being created?
Mark Layder 19:50
Well, I think that’s the bit then you get people are talking about it more and we see it with football players as much as we see it with other people as well. The mental pressures and the different way that you operate the kind of the way we would train, you get up at seven o’clock in the morning, you go to work, come back at six o’clock at night, tired, hang out, play with the kids pay some bills, go watch a bit of Telly go to bed and do it again, that’s over now. And it’s almost like you’re one the world society has been forced to wake up. And the single difference no matter what you do, as a self-employed person, you have to be more alive, more awake, because there’s so many more things you have to deal with, whether it’s HMRC, and Companies House, and all of those kinds of things, all of which you do not have to deal with as an employee. So finding ways to be apprenticed towards, even staying in the job and finding, a good network marketing company or a good part time training or something that gives you those skills so that you then have the choice to do what again, I know it’s FSB, but one of them 80 plus percent of people say they would rather not be in their existing job, but they’re afraid of losing it. That’s a huge societal pressure. And it does have its mental health problems, which we hear about every day we turn the news on?
Phil Byrne 21:21
We certainly do, and one of the things I have a hole for in my heart Mark is, I can really feel how much the UK has become more pressurized. And this is me as an ex-expart spending some time living in other countries. And of all the places I’ve lived to the seven countries in total, I spend some time in, the UK is the most pressurized. And that’s something I could only learn by leaving and coming back. Well, I think that’s one of the things that somehow that pressure has to be released
Mark Layder 21:56
You know, if you’ve got a biz connector, in our terms on your side, that person who is incentivized to let you as the business owner carry on doing what you’re good at, and they can be that bookies runner that factoring carrier that brings you resources and leverages your time, then that’s one step to get more people a successfully on the path and be able to stay on the path so that they do end up where they want to be, which at the moment is not at all the case statistically,
Phil Byrne 22:29
Very true. That’s why the world, certainly the UK need your Mark, for those many reasons.
Mark Layder 22:33
We are working on it. That’s why we’re talking to you as well, because you’ve got some tremendous skills that people need. So you know, I’m an arch collaborator. So that’s why we’ve got to go talk to more people.
Phil Byrne 22:46
Absolutely Mark, and one thing I’ve enjoyed in both of our charts is that comes over. And if you, if you took money aside, then you know, that’s exactly the reason I do this, I love helping people, and helping them see the potential in their business explode online, it’s a really good thing, because they get a real kick, a real energy of a life changing moment, almost. And to be able to help someone do that is, for me, it’s almost better than seeing it happen for myself. It’s the, it’s the whole reason why Positive Sparks exists in many ways. And I get that sense from you as well. There’s, you know, you really want to make that change for people. So they can understand as another way,
Mark Layder 23:31
Particularly feel, because it’s not that complex, but you know, kind of the education system that we’ve all been through largely, has taught us to respect complex and you can boil this conversation and many I’m sure that you had down to 123 simple things that anybody can do that will a change their attitude and be set them off on a pathway that’s different to the hard one that they currently are on. And that seems to be almost hardwired into us Phil, that they’re getting back in collaboration. And again, touching on school that most of what we call collaboration in school is called cheating, remember, so it’s a natural skill, but it has sort of been bred out of us. So we’re not teaching anything new for the most part, we’re getting people back to real principles and real things that they intuitively know. Yeah, that feels right for me. If they get to that point, then they’re more likely to use the tool at the right time. And then then they can get good advice into what they’re doing. And then you’re back in the thrival Lane rather than stuck on the survival one again.
Phil Byrne 24:44
Very true. Very true. So you mentioned that there just now Mark that word tool, and you mentioned that a couple of times in in the podcast before now. What tools can you recommend to help everybody on their business journey?
Mark Layder 25:00
I’d probably around what we’re talking about tools like refer.com, which is if nothing else, even if you don’t use it as a tool, it will get people talking about referrals, or often we know, historically to comb introductions, everybody seems to know. And if you ask 100 business owners, they’ll often it’ll be 50 to 80%, in many businesses as to where they get their business from, and from referrals and introductions, but then you say, well, where’s your system to get those referrals introductions, and they often haven’t got one. So something like refer.com will get you into that thinking mode of rather than having 3000 followers on Twitter that they’re random, and you don’t really do much with them. They’re not, they’re not a proper shop window. Instead of those 3000. On Twitter, if you’ve got 10 people connected with you on refer.com, who are non-competing people around, but serve the same kind of customers as you do that group of just an arbitrary number 10. But it’s not 50. It’s a small group that can develop a relationship, potentially offline, as well as online. And that group took upon just to do something like pass one good connection per week, per member. So everybody’s passing nine, kind of good connections that are either door openers, or maybe they do become prospects at time, you know, potential new customers, just that alone, nine new contacts a week properly followed up properly opened properly, relationships, I’d take that any day over just about any of the platforms. So to get with this principle of relationships, that trigger referrals, and make it easy for people to bring you business is probably as good a starting point as any today.
Phil Byrne 26:54
That’s a great tip there Mark refer.com is not a site that I’ve known about before
Mark Layder 27:02
And that just given people a system, really, to start to really think of, at some point, maybe you and I Phil would try and work this out. Because, you know, we all had people in the family. In my case, my mother that said, you know, it’s very pro education. But at the same token, it’s not what you know, but who you know, well, there are ways in American language to monetize your relationships. And it’s, and initially, it comes from being good and supportive to whether it’s your family and your core business people in the close in friends, but then extending that, if you’re known as somebody, that’s the go to guy, then having systems of staying in touch with people. I think, when you touched on my first consultancy assignments years ago, going back to the motor trade, we showed garages in the mid-80s, that you made more money by earning the right to stay in touch with the client or the prospect of the where, who you couldn’t sell a car to today. But if you were able to stay in touch with them, and we’re in it for the long term, the one or two out of 10 people that you didn’t do business with today. But if you could build relationships with the other eight, beyond 18 months and two years, you’d be making far more money from the eight that you didn’t sell today, but built relationships with the new wood from the two that you close in the old terms today. And so that that’s why ultimately, my philosophies haven’t changed at all. It’s just the ways of getting the messages out there. And the world really starting to wake up to this that says, if you if you do business for the short term and you trash people today, whether it’s online rating systems, or whatever it is, you you’re not going to be here for longer nor should you be but for the people that are in it long term to really give value and add value to other people, then I’ll promote them all day long, because I know other people will get benefit from them.
Phil Byrne 29:00
Great thinking Mark, the thing you were doing this in the 80s which you know, was the decade I remember the most from my childhood. Great stuff. So Mark, You’ve named some Great tips. I’ve learned from you already I’ve got if nothing else, I’m going to go away and look at refer.com Tell us all about where we can find you, your company online.
Mark Layder 29:23
Well, if you want to go to Qollaborate, which if you write the word collaborate, you know what they see and just change the first word into a Q the first letter into a Q, you’ve got Qollaborate, and then it’s dot org. And then if you do slash form, it will take you to our little three-minute checklist if you want to do that and just for the fun of it to get a sense of what your priorities are, but there’s also some little videos on there and a bit of content in there just to give people a feel for this whole area about kind of one of my favorite lines. Business was never meant to be a struggle and if it is, there’s something wrong and they’re people that can take that struggle away. And very quickly, in that mindset shift and willingness to look at these things, you can be in survival lane and very quickly for a very limited cost and a great reduction in pain on a day to day basis.
Phil Byrne 30:15
Well, that sounds like a good thing for everyone, doesn’t it? Just hearing that. Why not? Absolutely. And so Mark, you said some great things today. Any final message you want to give everybody?
Mark Layder 30:27
No, I think I think that’s good. You know, all I know is that where business might have been years ago, almost like digging down into, you know, find the gold and it was this dig down to find rare assets, almost that move in that little visual for mining, to almost now looking upwards. And seeing the opposite today of almost like the world today is now this great big balloon or thing called opportunity almost strangling us, there’s now so much opportunity out there, it’s now not a dig down to find it’s everywhere. But we’ve now got to know which to choose and which to focus on in which to really map and which suits our style. And in our terms, obviously biz connectors in the process of connecting into that reservoir or balloon of opportunities, then is it means that there is huge opportunity for that, but you’ve got to know the rules and you’ve got to have the resources lined up to capitalise on that. And with a few small changes, anybody can take advantage of that to their to them and their local community and potentially the economies benefit. Good bit local thinking to get very big picture results. And again, why not it can happen and Brexit in political terms can be a magnificent thing for this country, if we get out there and trade our way into being something magnificent, which we have been before and why we can be and will be again.
Phil Byrne 31:54
So we should all get ready for opportunity.
Mark Layder 31:56
Well, you know, why not? Rather than let it almost if you’re in the sweet shop, and you’re just absolutely you haven’t got a clue what you’re looking to buy as masses of goodies in there. But you’ve got to make a decision about the Everton mints as my to go with my football club version or the or the stick of rock or the bar chocolate, but there’s no shortage of the goodies. You’ve just got to have your criteria, right know which ones you want to choose. And sometimes in the modern day, you might need some good advisors to help you get those on terms that you’re comfortable with so that they fit with you and you can use them at the right time in the right way.
Phil Byrne 32:30
There we go. Mark, it’s been a pleasure having you on the podcast. Thank you so much for your words. Pleasure, great rest of the day.
Mark Layder 32:37
I will indeed and we will talk further very soon
Phil Byrne 32:48
My name is Phil Byrne. Thank you for listening. I hope you got something good to take away from our great guest today. This podcast is brought to you by Positive Sparks a multi channel pay per click and web analytics agency. If you would like some more free help in promoting what you do, head on over and test our skills and your business at https://positivesparks.com
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